|
|
Post by jdv on Oct 22, 2021 12:26:53 GMT -5
Lot's to unpack here, but let's start with a true bombshell of a headline:
“Alec Baldwin fired a prop gun on a set in New Mexico on Thursday, accidentally killing cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and wounding director Joel Souza,” reported Variety." --------------------------------------
He did so after reportedly 'joking' with the director and director of photography after they requested another take by saying:
"Another take? How about I just fucking shoot the both of ya?" before actually pulling the trigger.
Baldwin, it should be noted, is a producer of the film, which has now (obviously) shut down production and will likely never see the light of day.
In the over 30 years I've been in the movie business, I've never heard such a wildly irresponsible tale of stupid. Even the Vic Morrow and Brandon Lee tragedies were less stupid. Let's break down all the reasons why:
First, the gun is almost certainly NOT a prop gun - this is a Western, meaning single shooter revolver. Which means a real gun that in theory would only be loaded with blanks. Indeed, most guns you see firing in movies are real guns, merely firing blanks (for example, Brandon Lee was killed by a real gun).
No true prop gun could ever fire a bullet. This either because the weapon has no firing pin, or is made of rubber or plastic. It is this feature which makes them a prop gun in the first place. Any "prop" which can fire a round is by definition a firearm, both legally and per Hollywood tradition.
While prop gun tech has advanced since Lee was killed (primarily thanks to CG and CO2 powered BB guns), that hasn't translated to older, antique weapons. So right off the bat, the media is spinning the story.
Second, and far more important, the very first thing an actor in theater or film is taught by weapon masters and directors and producers and stunt coordinators is to NEVER actually aim a firearm at another person. Ever.
And that includes rubber or plastic guns; even guns obviously unfireable because you always want to condition people on a set NOT to ever point guns, of any kind, at someone.
And certainly never point a gun at someone unless absolutely necessary for the story, something shooting a gun at a cameraman & director clearly falls outside the lines of.
Baldwin, who's been in dozens of movies featuring weapons surely has been told this fact a thousand times or more. Anyone who's ever been on a single show with guns would have been told non-stop to never fuck with prop guns (or real ones).
Third, unless modified or otherwise a rare piece, most western era guns are single shooters, meaning a person has to pull back the hammer himself each time a shot is to be fired. It's unclear at this point exactly what sort of gun was used, but if it was a single shooter style gun, it makes this even worse if multiple shots were fired. It's not being reported yet if he fired one shot or more (it's entirely possible that the first bullet could have gone through one person and hit the other).
Forth, there should never be live rounds on sets. Ever. It's always been a rule on modern sets, but one that was doubly so after the Brandon Lee incident. As a producer, Baldwin is directly responsible for insisting on this rule... and perhaps directly responsible for it being broken.
Fifth, an actor - particularly one as experienced as Baldwin - ought to be able to tell from the weight of gun (which would be vastly heavier with real, live, lead rounds) that something was amiss. It's still an actor's responsibility to inspect his prop, and if a gun, inspect the rounds in that gun. If also a producer, this responsibility is doubled. And that includes inspecting the primer cap in the rounds - the second you see an un-punctured primer in the back of a bullet, you must assume it's a live round.
Either Baldwin did not do this, or he knew the rounds were live. There simply is no alternative.
Sixth, Baldwin has a long a storied history of threats and violence, including against his own family. He has assaulted multiple reporters over the years and has threatened many more. Meaning that it is completely consistent with his personality to angrily do something stupid.
Seventh, Baldwin once wondered on twitter what it would feel like to accidentally shoot someone. A bizarre comment even without what happened today.
Eighth, assuming this was at least a 2nd take (again, assuming his "joke" about shooting them is accurate), the camera crew would check the gate (if it was a film camera), video would be replayed, lights, hair, makeup, and wardrobe would typically all be re-checked, as well as continuity checks by the script supervisor (all part of why Hollywood movies take so long to make). All of which tends to rule out an accidental firing, but certainly supports the idea Baldwin - unplanned - aimed the gun at the people he killed/injured.
I say that because people are already trying to say it was a planned shot aiming the gun at camera. All the above tends to exclude that possibility. More so, because any gun with live blanks aimed at a camera (which typically cost $20,000-50,000; lenses even more) would certainly have a sheet of Gorilla glass (or something similar) put up in front of the camera. Incredibly difficult to fire through that glass, the lens's glass (most lenses typically have 8 separate glass elements or more), the camera itself, and still have enough force to kill someone, then pass through them, and them injure another.
Possible, but highly unlikely.
While it is possible for gross negligence on the part of the weapons master, given the above, Baldwin still played a part it the shooting beyond the mere pulling of the trigger. As producer and biggest star attached the show (meaning the show likely never made without his presence, even if he didn't actually put money up himself), it was his responsibility to make sure to hire good people. Any way you slice it, Baldwin is, at least in some way, responsible for the accident even if he didn't intentionally aim the gun in an unplanned manner at the crew. But is it likely that that's his only part in this tale?
Or is it far more likely is that he acted like a tough guy, grab assing around in ways he's been taught for 40 years not to do, and without permission fired a gun at unsuspecting people?
Lastly, the arrogant ironic hypocrisy of Baldwin's act given his well known desire to enforce vastly stricter gun control can hardly be ignored. Multitudes of Hollywood stars are gun control advocates - obviously including Baldwin - despite many either owning guns themselves, or using armed guards. This also despite being in Hollywood films which not only feature incredible amounts of gun violence, but massively unrealistic uses of guns to glorify that violence.
Yet they - and specifically Baldwin - continue to use guns in the films that make them rich & famous.
It's almost certain Baldwin will never be charged with a crime - the rich & famous already held to a different standard, and he's a prominent democrat backer to boot - he's potentially guilty of gross negligence, both as an actor and a producer for all the reasons above. While the production likely had insurance, the company will likely be able to succeed in arguing that Baldwin's actions went far beyond the normal, reasonably expected, behavior of an experienced professional actor & producer.
While it won't be the last we hear of him - he's already tweeted something out today, so vast is his need for attention - but any sort of moral authority he had on gun control (which was little) is now irrevocably gone... hopefully along with his career.
killed by an arrogant jackass who would tell you what to do
|
|
|
|
Post by jdv on Oct 23, 2021 12:22:09 GMT -5
Conflicting reports about the exact sequence of events, and neither one is very happy news for Baldwin, who could be charged with negligent homicide: In version one, Baldwin fired the gun towards the crew, the bullet struck Halyna in the abdomen, then exited and struck director’s shoulder, who was crouching behind her. This is the most likely scenario. Version two, this from the LA Times (a source more likely to cover for Baldwin both b/c of its proximity to Hollywood and it love of democrats): "Baldwin removed the gun from its holster once without incident, but the second time he repeated the action, ammunition flew toward the trio around the monitor. The projectile whizzed by the camera operator but penetrated Hutchins near her shoulder, then continued through to Souza." ------------------------------------ Neither one indicates any sort of protective glass set up. Neither indicates a break in the action to check the gun. Neither version indicates Baldwin bothered to check the gun or the rounds himself. Neither version indicated whether or not Baldwin was supposed to be aiming the gun towards the crew as a planned part of the shot. No indication yet on whether blanks were being used on the set, or on this particular scene. So plenty still not known. But the LA Times did report the following, and if true directly implicates Baldwin as his role as producer: "Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks, two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times. “There should have been an investigation into what happened,” said the crew member. “ There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.A colleague was so alarmed by the prop gun misfires he sent a text message to the unit production manager. “We’ve now had 3 accidental discharges. This is super unsafe.” --------------------------- If the last sentence is true, Baldwin's cooked. It simply can not happen; can not be allowed.
In my opinion, an actor can not completely relegate responsibility of inspecting a live firearm - which again, this was (not a prop as Variety disingenuously described it). ANY person touching the weapon must have had training in its use, proper safety techniques, and inspecting the rounds having being taught what to look for (spent primers, is there powder in the round, is there real lead at the end of the round, and so on).
While an actor can not inspect a bullet to know if there's propellant/gun power in the round, they can ask. They can inspect every other aspect of the round. Frankly, it'd be very hard to confuse a dummy bullet with a new, factory made, live round even for a complete novice.
None of the industry standard safety precautions seem to have happened in any version of the story to come out so far, and even if they were, those standards do not necessarily protect the producers from criminal and civil liability. To wit, for many years if was completely accepted by airlines that their pilots would be straight up drunk during flights. Obviously just because this was a accepted practice did not make it safe.
Again, I've been doing small indie films for a 1/3 of a century and somehow seem to have managed better gun safety techniques than a major motion picture.
There's already been a cry for zero firearms on sets, including one TV series already announcing that. I think that's silly, but better than blowing people away.
|
|
|
|
Post by jdv on Oct 23, 2021 15:40:24 GMT -5
Whoops: "About a half-dozen camera crew workers walked off the set to protest working conditions just hours before the fatal incident, according to a report in The Los Angeles Times. The camera operators and their assistants were reportedly frustrated by the conditions surrounding the indie film, including complaints of long hours and pay, according to three people familiar with the matter who were not authorized to comment to the newspaper. Several nonunion crew members showed up to replace them, an anonymous source told the Times. A member of the producer staff then ordered the union members to leave the set. She said if they didn’t leave, the producers would call security to remove them. The prop master who handled the gun that killed the cinematographer was “just brought in” amid the protests over conditions on the set, according to a report from the New York Post.The unidentified employee was reportedly hired to replace someone else amid the on-set chaos." ---------------------------- So a willful, knowing, cutting of corners by producers. A prop man is not the same as a weapons master. There's a reason why you see very specific titles for the various jobs on a set during the end credits. In union shoots, those jobs are never swapped; never shared. Those jobs are hard to get and fought for by people trying to get into the biz.
Simply put, I've never heard of a weapons master being replaced half way through a shoot, much less half way through a shooting day, much less by a man who may or may not know anything about guns.
It's still not known if Baldwin's shooting the gun towards camera was planned, or him playing Billy bad ass. Apparently a search warrant was executed by local police, but details of the warrant are unknown at this time.
|
|
|
|
Post by Warpig on Oct 23, 2021 18:42:45 GMT -5
The story just gets worse and worse.
|
|
|
|
Post by jdv on Oct 25, 2021 16:12:43 GMT -5
The director now saying he did it while "rehearsing", a claim which may be debunked down the line, not that it matters much.
Still not clear if the action being rehearsed (if that's actually what was happening) was supposed to be towards the camera or if Baldwin was winging it. No mention at all of glass set up in front of the camera, something that even a very small show would use to protect the crew and camera.
And - somehow - we still do not know how many shots were actually fired. I've been assuming 1 shot that hit both people, but it not it's even worse as the gun was likely not double action.
In any event, the director is claiming that the cameras were not rolling as it was a rehearsal... but of course, rehearsals are often (read usually) recorded too because you might get magic. Clint Eastwood famously does so all the time.
Simply put, no one would ever practice with a gun loaded with live blanks. Ever. In fact, it'd be very rare to practice with the "hero" prop or gun at all.
Standard procedure on a modern set would be to practice with a completely dummy gun, something made out of rubber or wood for two reasons: one, obviously, is that it's another layer of safety. 2nd, far less chance a expensive weapon is damaged or destroyed if the actor drops it - which of course they would during "practice".
So the idea that this shit-heel "accidentally" shot even a blank is hard to swallow, much less a live round - which again the actor should be checking regardless (esp when it's so easy to so on 6 shooters).
One other note, the weapon master/prop was a woman, who also apparently told people she was nervous about the job.
|
|
|
|
Post by Warpig on Oct 26, 2021 9:18:35 GMT -5
He has STILL not been arrested.
|
|
|
|
Post by Warpig on Oct 26, 2021 9:21:56 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by jdv on Oct 26, 2021 12:03:23 GMT -5
Arrested? If the prosecutor is a democrat, he'll be awarded a public safety trophy.
One def gets a "save ass" vibe from the director. He knows it's in his best interest to protect Baldwin and the production company.
Doesn't mean that he's lying, but a large grain of salt should probably be taken with any statement he - or anyone else connected in a major way to the company - gives.
And that's because someone's head will roll, just not Baldwin's - and everyone knows it.
|
|
|
|
Post by jdv on Oct 27, 2021 7:06:56 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Warpig on Oct 27, 2021 9:13:53 GMT -5
I think he'll be charged to be honest. He's not a local, he was a prick to everyone, and he is ultimately responsible for everything that happens on set as the producer. Also, he picked up a loaded weapon and fired it at his DP. No matter what his 'intention' or what he 'thought', at the end of the day you picked up a loaded weapon and killed a woman with it.
|
|
|
|
Post by jdv on Oct 27, 2021 12:14:19 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Warpig on Oct 28, 2021 7:26:44 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by jdv on Oct 28, 2021 14:08:27 GMT -5
A dangerously stupid man: "Alec Baldwin resurfaces in Vermont after 'Rust' shooting, stuns local business owner: 'My jaw dropped' The actor was spotted in a small town picking up food on Monday days after the ‘Rust’ shooting in Santa Fe, New Mexico that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins" ----------------- Sure, it seems like a smart idea not be be getting seasonal fruit and non-seasonal pizza mere hours after blowing someone away out of criminally negligent behavior, but come on - those pizzas weren't going to eat themselves! Pick all the squares featuring a hypocritical moron who shot someone dead over the past week |
|
|
|
Post by jdv on Oct 29, 2021 13:23:50 GMT -5
The weaons master when the gun went off is finally realizing that Baldwin and the rest will be trying to throw her under the bus to avoid criminal charges. Of course, when you recklessly hire someone who is unqualified, I'm not sure how far that protects Baldwin, if at all. His responsibility to check the gun certainly not diminished by this pic:
This rather un-serious young person is the "expert" hired by Baldwin to replace the weapon's master who apparently walked off set.
They say a picture is worth a thousand words, and the words the above picture paints certainly doesn't scream experienced professional.
She's claiming she fought for safety meetings and locked up the guns every night and never allowed real, live, rounds to be brought on set. Yet we now know that none of those things happened.
To be sure, she was pushed around (no doubt because of her youth and assumed near total lack of experience), something that Baldwin will hopefully answer for. It doesn't give her a pass - a desire for fame and fortune is not a defense - but obviously the blame is not all hers....
If at all.
|
|
|
|
Post by jdv on Nov 11, 2021 17:53:48 GMT -5
So, the lawsuits have begun against the production company, even as the weapons master claims she's being framed.
Meanwhile, local cops have stated they have found yet more live rounds on the set.
Baldwin, who fired the deadly shot & produced the film, has spoken several times since, opining that cops should now be required on every set with gun.
The irony of that statement is so magnificent it boggles the mind.
|
|
|
|
Post by Warpig on Nov 11, 2021 18:42:09 GMT -5
Cop: Hey Alec, That's cool and all, but how about this one time here where you pointed a gun and a woman and fired? I mean I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that's murder? I mean they trained us with this stuff so I'm pretty sure that's murder.
|
|
Plissken
Junior Member
If you want to picture the future, imagine a reboot stamping on a human face forever.
Posts: 91
|
Post by Plissken on Nov 16, 2021 10:32:41 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Warpig on Nov 16, 2021 13:36:35 GMT -5
The prosecutor has committed multiple crimes during this trial, the judge could have him arrested at any moment. He won't, but it'd be well within his purview to do so.
|
|
|
|
Post by jdv on Nov 18, 2021 11:12:14 GMT -5
It's still not known if Baldwin's shooting the gun towards camera was planned, or him playing Billy bad ass.
Well, now we know:
"2nd ‘Rust’ Crew Member Sues Alec Baldwin: ‘He Did Not Check the Gun Himself,’ No Firing in Upcoming Scene
Mamie Mitchell, the script supervisor for the unfinished film Rust, filed suit against its lead actor and producer Alec Baldwin Wednesday, declaring “Mr. Baldwin cannot hide behind the Assistant Director to attempt to excuse the fact that he did not check the gun himself.”
Mitchell’s complaint also alleges: “Alec Baldwin intentionally, without just cause or excuse, cocked and fired the loaded gun even though the upcoming scene to be filmed did not call for the cocking and firing of the firearm.”
The Associated Press notes that the suit indicates Mitchell “was standing next to Hutchins and within 4 feet (1.22 meters) of [Baldwin], and was stunned when he fired the gun inside the tiny church on Bonanza Creek Ranch on Oct. 21.” -----------------------------------------
So Billy Bad Ass shot a loaded gun in a scene where there was supposed to be no shooting of any kind.
Opps.
No wonder the cameras weren't rolling - none of it was planned. Thus his statement of "I'm going to shoot you motherfuckers" looks even worse than it did before.
Making Daniel "I'm the dumb Baldwin" Balwin's defense of his brother yesterday look even dumber then it did before.
This pretty much a slam dunk for a neg hom charge against Baldwin... but the dark ones protect their own.
|
|
|
|
Post by jdv on Dec 1, 2021 13:11:26 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Warpig on Dec 1, 2021 14:38:00 GMT -5
"Shooting", as if he was somehow uninvolved and is merely commenting on an unrelated event.
|
|
|
|
Post by jdv on Dec 1, 2021 15:04:20 GMT -5
He had nothing to do with it!
I mean besides wondering a few years ago about how it would feel to shoot someone, threatening to shoot the director and DP right before he shot them both, hiring a weapons master w/ almost no experience after the original WM left because of unsafe working conditions, having live rounds on the set, not checking his gun, aiming & firing his gun in a scene where there was not supposed to be a fired gun, and firing it directly at the DP/director despite the whole never aim a gun at anyone you do not mean to kill. Besides that - and God knows what else - he's perfectly innocent! |
|
|
|
Post by jdv on Dec 1, 2021 16:05:01 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Warpig on Dec 1, 2021 18:07:20 GMT -5
What balls.
|
|
|
|
Post by jdv on Dec 1, 2021 18:12:29 GMT -5
He apparently - again - suggested it was a frame job with a gun rigged to fire without even pulling the trigger.
Meaning that the delusional Baldwin is playing out a scene from CLUE rather than payout some money to the victim's family.
It also means he's essentially accusing the weapons master - or some other nefarious person - with the murder.
I'm thinking Trump rigged the gun. Yeah, that's the ticket!
|
|
|
|
Post by Warpig on Dec 1, 2021 22:23:00 GMT -5
Oooh, those DEVIOUS MAGA people!!
|
|
|
|
Post by jdv on Dec 3, 2021 12:08:36 GMT -5
What a train wreck. Baldwin an absolute fool for doing the show, as it showed (as if there were any doubt) how gobsmackingly in love with himself he truly is. Beyond the ridiculous notion that he somehow had nothing to do with the gun being fired, he actually had the audacity to cry when asked if blowing away an innocent woman was "the worst day of his life".
Well, we wouldn't anything like a negligent homicide ruin his day, would we.? What a complete ass clown. I almost feel sorry for his lawyer....
He has big feelz - poor butterfly |
|
|
|
Post by Warpig on Dec 3, 2021 12:56:04 GMT -5
Dude, I was thinking the same thing.
I can see his lawyer now:
"JESUS CHRIST, SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!"
|
|
Plissken
Junior Member
If you want to picture the future, imagine a reboot stamping on a human face forever.
Posts: 91
|
Post by Plissken on Dec 5, 2021 21:06:14 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by jdv on Dec 6, 2021 12:59:12 GMT -5
Steph asks stupid, "Do you feel any guilt?" Dummy immediately says, "No. None at all." How is that going to play to a jury in New Mexico, good, or not so much?
|
|
